Quotation for Q and a Testimony Read Into Record
ollowing are excerpts of President Clinton'south grand jury testimony every bit quoted in the written report sent to Congress last calendar week by Contained Counsel Kenneth Starr. The quotations are grouped by subject matter, and are not necessarily in the sequence in which the answers were given in the president's testimony on Aug. 17.
At the kickoff of his testimony, the president read a statement outlining his human relationship with Monica Lewinsky. At diverse times in the four-60 minutes session, Clinton refused to elaborate on certain matters and referred back to his argument.
ON THE DEFINITION OF SEXUAL RELATIONS
Prosecutors asked the president why he did not dispute his lawyer, Robert Bennett, in Clinton's deposition in the Paula Jones lawsuit on Jan. 17 when Bennett said, referring to Ms. Lewinsky's affirmation in the instance, "there is admittedly no sex of any kind in any manner, shape or class." Clinton said Bennett had been speaking only in the nowadays tense.
At i point, Clinton explained:
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the -- if he -- if 'is' ways is and never has been, that is not -- that is one thing. If information technology means there is none, that was a completely true argument. . . . At present if someone had asked me on that day, are you lot having whatsoever kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true. . . ."
Q.: "Do you mean today that because you were not engaging in sexual activity with Ms. Lewinsky during the deposition that the statement of Mr. Bennett might be literally truthful?"
Clinton: "No, Sir. I mean that at the time of the deposition, it had been -- that was well beyond any point of improper contact between me and Ms. Lewinsky."
Prosecutors asked Clinton about his estimation of the definition of "sexual relations" presented at his deposition in the Jones case, which read as follows: "A person engages in 'sexual relations' when the person knowingly engages in or causes contact with the ballocks, anus, groin, chest, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person."
Q.: "Is oral sex performed on you within that definition equally y'all understood it, the definition in the Jones -- "
A.: "As I understood it, it was not; no. . . ."
Q.: "And so touching, in your view and then and now -- the person being deposed touching or kissing the breast of another person would fall within the definition?"
A.: "That'south correct, Sir."
Q.: "And you testified that you didn't have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky in the Jones degradation, nether that definition, right?"
A.: "That's correct, Sir."
Q.: "If the person being deposed touched the genitalia of another person, would that be -- and with the intent to agitate the sexual desire, agitate or gratify, every bit defined in definition (one), would that be, under your understanding then and now -- "
A.: "Yeah, Sir."
Q.: " -- sexual relations."
A.: "Aye, Sir."
Q.: "Yep it would?"
A.: "Yes it would. If you had a directly contact with whatever of these places in the body, if y'all had direct contact with intent to arouse or gratify, that would fall within the definition."
Q.: "And then y'all didn't do any of those three things -- "
A.: "You -- "
Q.: " -- with Monica Lewinsky."
A.: "Y'all are gratis to infer that my testimony is that I did non have sexual relations, as I understood this term to be divers."
Q.:"Including touching her breast, kissing her chest, touching her ballocks?"
A.: "That'south right. . . ."
Q.: "The question is, if Monica Lewinsky says that while you lot were in the Oval Office area y'all touched her breasts would she be lying?"
A.: "That is not my recollection. My recollection is that I did not have sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, and I'thousand staying on my onetime statement about that. . . . My, my argument is that I did not have sexual relations as divers past that."
Q.: "If she says that you kissed her breasts, would she be lying?"
A.: "I'm going to revert to my former statement."
Q.: "OK. If Monica Lewinsky says that while you were in the Oval Office area you touched her genitalia, would she be lying? And that calls for a yep, no, or reverting to your former argument."
A.: "I will revert to my former argument on that.. . .
If the deponent is the person who has oral sexual activity performed on him, then the contact is with -- not with anything on that listing, only with the lips of another person. It seems to be cocky-evident that that's what it is. . . . Let me remind yous Sir, I read this carefully."
Prosecutors asked Clinton about the affidavit filed by Ms. Lewinsky in the Jones case, in which she denied having a sexual relationship with the president.
A.: "I believe at the time that she filled out this affidavit, if she believed that the definition of sexual relationship was ii people having intercourse, then this is accurate. And I believe that is the definition that almost ordinary Americans would requite information technology."
DISCUSSIONS WITH MS. LEWINSKY.
Ms. Lewinsky appeared on the witness list in the Jones example in December 1997 and then received a amendment to prove. In his grand jury testimony, the president acknowledged "talking with Ms. Lewinsky about her testimony, or about the prospect that she might have to requite testimony."
". . . I did not want her to have to bear witness and go through that. And of course, I didn't want her to do that, of course not. . . .
"I remember a chat about the possibility of her testifying. I believe it must have occurred on the 28th (of December).
"She mentioned to me that she did non want to evidence. So, that's how it came up. Not in the context of, I heard y'all have a amendment, let's talk about it. . . .
"She raised the issue with me in the context of her desire to avoid testifying, which I certainly understood; not merely because in that location were some embarrassing facts about our relationship that were inappropriate, but also because a whole lot of innocent people were being traumatized and dragged through the mud by these Jones lawyers with their dragnet strategy. . . ."
Q.: Exercise you agree that she was upset about being subpoenaed?
A.: Oh, yes, Sir, she was upset. She -- well, she -- we -- she didn't -- we didn't talk nearly a subpoena. Only she was upset. She said, I don't want to evidence; I know aught nigh this; I certainly know null nigh sexual harassment; Why do they want me to testify? And I explained to her why they were doing this, and why all these women were on these lists, people that they knew practiced and well had nothing to practice with any sexual harassment. . . .
......
"I tin can tell you lot this: In the context of whether she could be a witness, I accept a recollection that she asked me, well, what practise I do if I become called as a witness, and I said, you have to get a lawyer. And that's all I said. And I never asked her to prevarication."
Q.: "Did you lot tell her to tell the truth?"
A.: "Well, I think the implication was she would tell the truth."
CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT'S Secretarial assistant, BETTY CURRIE
The president was asked why he might have said to Mrs. Currie in their meeting on Sunday, Jan. eighteen, 1998, "we were never solitary together, right?" and "you could see and hear everything." The president testified:
"What I was trying to make up one's mind was whether my recollection was right and that she was e'er in the office complex when Monica was at that place, and whether she thought she could hear any conversations we had, or did she hear any. . . ."
"I was trying to -- I knew . . . to a reasonable certainty that I was going to be asked more questions about this. I didn't really expect you to be in the Jones case at the fourth dimension. I idea what would happen is that it would intermission in the press, and I was trying to become the facts down. I was trying to understand what the facts were.
"When I said, 'We were never alone, correct?' I think I also asked her a number of other questions, because there were several times, as I'chiliad sure she would acknowledge, when I either asked her to be effectually. I think one time in particular when I was talking with Ms. Lewinsky when I asked Betty to exist in the, actually, in the next room in the dining room, and, as I testified earlier, once in her own part.
"Merely I meant that she was always in the Oval Function complex, in that complex, while Monica was at that place. And I believe that this was office of a series of questions I asked her to try to quickly refresh my memory. So, I wasn't trying to get her to say something that wasn't so. And, in fact, I think she would recall that I told her to but relax, become in the grand jury and tell the truth when she had been called every bit a witness."
Q.: "So, when y'all said to Mrs. Currie that, I was never alone with her, right, you just meant that yous and Ms. Lewinsky would be somewhere mayhap in the Oval Part or many times in your back report, is that correct?
A.: "That'due south right. We were in the back study.
Q.: "So -- "
A.: "Go along in listen, Sir, I but want to make it -- I was talking most 1997. I was never, ever trying to get Betty Currie to claim that on the occasions when Monica Lewinsky was there when she wasn't anywhere around, that she was. I would never have washed that to her, and I don't think she idea about that. I don't think she thought I was referring to that. . . ."
Q.: "If (Mrs. Currie) testified that you told her, Monica came on to me, and I never touched her, y'all did, in fact, of course, touch Ms. Lewinsky, isn't that right, in a physically intimate manner?"
A.: "Now, I've testified about that. And that'southward ane of those questions that I believe is answered by the argument that I made."
Q.: "What was your purpose in making these statements to Mrs. Currie, if information technology weren't for the purpose to try to advise to her what she should say if e'er asked?"
A.: "At present, Mr. Bittman, I told y'all, the just thing I remember is when all this stuff blew up, I was trying to effigy out what the facts were. I was trying to call back. I was trying to recall every time I had seen Ms. Lewinsky. . . ."
DISCUSSIONS WITH WHITE Business firm AIDES, Advisers AND OTHERS
Q.: "Practice you recall denying whatsoever sexual human relationship with Monica Lewinsky to the following people: Harry Thomasson, Erskine Bowles, Harold Ickes, Mr. (John) Podesta, Mr. (Sidney) Blumenthal, Mr. (Vernon) Jordan, Mrs. Betty Currie? Do you lot recall denying any sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky to those individuals? "
A.: "I recall telling a number of those people that I didn't take, either I didn't accept an affair with Monica Lewinsky or didn't take sex with her. And I believe, Sir, that -- you lot'll take to inquire them what they idea. But I was using those terms in the normal way people employ them. Y'all'll take to ask them what they idea I was saying."
Q.: "If they testified that you denied sexual human relationship with Monica Lewinsky, or if they told us that you lot denied that, do you lot have any reason to doubt them, in the days afterward the story broke; practice you have any reason to doubt them?"
A.: "No. . . ."
Q.: "It may take been misleading, Sir, and yous knew though, afterwards Jan. 21st when the (Washington) Post article bankrupt and said that Gauge Starr was looking into this, you lot knew that they might be witnesses. You knew that they might be chosen into a grand jury, didn't y'all?"
A.: "That's right. I recall I was quite careful what I said subsequently that. I may have said something to all these people to that effect, but I'll also -- whenever anybody asked me any details, I said, look, I don't want you to be a witness or I turn you into a witness or give y'all information that would get you in trouble. I just wouldn't talk. I, by and large, didn't talk to people virtually this.
Q.: "If all of these people -- let'southward exit out Mrs. Currie for a infinitesimal. Vernon Jordan, Sid Blumenthal, John Podesta, Harold Ickes, Erskine Bowles, Harry Thomasson, after the story broke, after Judge Starr'due south interest was known on January. 21st, have said that y'all denied a sexual relationship with them. Are you denying that?"
A.: "No."
Q.: "And you lot've told united states that y'all -- "
A.: "I'm only telling yous what I meant by it. I told you what I meant past it when they started this degradation."
Q.: "You've told us now that you were being conscientious, but that it might accept been misleading. Is that correct?"
A.: "It might have been. . . . So, what I was trying to do was to give them something they could -- that would be true, even if misleading in the context of this deposition, and keep them out of trouble, and let's deal -- and bargain with what I thought was the about ludicrous suggestion that I had urged someone to lie or tried to suborn perjury, in other words."
MS. LEWINSKY'S JOB SEARCH
"You know, she tried for months and months to go a job back in the White House, not then much in the Due west Wing simply somewhere in the White House circuitous, including the Old Executive Office Edifice. . . .She very much wanted to come back. And she interviewed for some jobs but never got i. She was, from time to time, upset most it. . . .
"What I told Ms. Lewinsky was that . . . I would do what I could to see if she had a good record at the Pentagon, and she assured me she was doing a good job and working hard, that I would do my best to see that the fact that she had been sent away from the Legislative Diplomacy section did non go on her from getting a job in the White House, and that is, in fact, what I tried to do. . . . But I did not tell her I would order someone to hire her, and I never did, and I wouldn't exercise that. It wouldn't exist correct."
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/library/politics/091798clinton-text.html
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